Subject	Two fallacies there:
Posted by	SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) on December 29, 2003 at 10:35 PM
	This message has been viewed 331 times.
In Reply To	Thanks. I did not know that posted by HakenTT on December 29, 2003 at 10:09 PM
Message	there are people who had JWT ecus and still have blown motors at only ~13psi. This is hardly anything scientific. I know, that would be hard to nail down using the scientific method, but that doesn't mean you can automatically assume that even a fraction of those engine failures were because of the chip OR boost levels. It's totally flawed reasoning. If that was very true theory then Nissan engeeners wouldn't made safety knock map Had the cars been putting down over 400RWHP with the boost levels we see today, it would have been a much different safety mapping. Not to mention, the cars we drive today are far off from the way Nissan engineers planned them! If you check out a few books on what they were trying to do back in the day...back in 1986-1988...there was NOTHING in their motive to produce a base engine that was capable or running massive amounts of boost we do today compared to stock. They were lucky/ecstatic/shocked at how awesome the car performed the way it did back then (even with all that horrid plumbing on the front and backend of the motor). They had no insight as to what we'd be doing nowadays and they've admitted as much at functions in the US some of them have actually attended! Mr. K's 91st birthday as an example in Gardena where some of them spoke :) If the ECU was unsafe, we would have seen more evidence of it 15,000 ECUs ago. While I don't think the age and number of sold units ALONE can say how good a product is, it sure does help despite what others in this thread say. My 300Zs: www.zheaven.com - Have a question about either of my 300ZXs? Answers lie within. Admin: www.350ZForum.com - Your source for the lastest info on the new Nissan 350Z! Writer: www.SportZMagazine.com - Nothing but Z cars from cover to cover! Subscribe today! Moderator: www.TwinTurbo.net - Hands down, the best site for 90-96 Z car info and discussion!
Follow Ups	My personal ECU tuner Reviews. Difference in maps! - HakenTT 20:43:54 12/29/03 Not trying to knock u or anything, but... - Sportzcoop 20:59:43 12/29/03 Thats my personal opinion and experience - HakenTT 21:07:27 12/29/03 noted. (n/m) - Sportzcoop 21:40:35 12/29/03 What kind of qualification is needed for a personal review? - Marshall 21:15:15 12/29/03 Huh? - 90Z-NA ( ATL ) 21:44:18 12/29/03 This is how it sounds to me no offence.. - Jason300zxTT(NoVA) 21:08:04 12/29/03 JWT is just a famous name - HakenTT 21:11:42 12/29/03 huh? (n/m) - Snoguitar 21:11:53 12/29/03 You truly deserve that big green Noob sign. (n/m) - 90Z-NA ( ATL ) 21:31:55 12/29/03 you shouldn't waste your time - NR98 (soon) 21:13:20 12/29/03 Well it is a growing realization that our ECU upgrade - Russell@Z1 21:29:15 12/29/03 Jerry you NEED to start checking your emails (n/m) - RED ZYA IN CT 21:32:43 12/29/03 you got mail (n/m) - NR98 (soon) 21:35:51 12/29/03 Re: My personal ECU tuner Reviews. Difference in maps! - orion 21:16:42 12/29/03 http://www.progshop.com/shop/programmer/index.shtml#picture (n/m) - zboost 21:28:21 12/29/03 Thank you Haken. - Stealth021 21:26:28 12/29/03 Nice work (n/m) - MikeVar82 21:30:50 12/29/03 Hehe, niiiice. - AshsZ(In Florida) 21:30:57 12/29/03 Thanks for info dude - HakenTT 21:41:26 12/29/03 The thing is, the theoretical A/F you are getting - AshsZ(In Florida) 21:51:20 12/29/03 I know that - HakenTT 22:01:02 12/29/03 Dude, are ya done licking Ash's nuts yet? - Smurf Z 09:37:08 12/30/03 They do have different fuel over there..... (n/m) - Seb 21:42:59 12/29/03 that's another problem with tuning for US cars, - AshsZ(In Florida) 21:44:50 12/29/03 Re: that's another problem with tuning for US cars, - Seb 21:47:03 12/29/03 It will be a little lower with race fuel, but that's because - AshsZ(In Florida) 21:52:48 12/29/03 I've seen the exact same scenario without that problem - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 21:54:00 12/29/03 He said Devins chip got too hot on EGT I believe - Stealth021 21:58:20 12/29/03 He said in Safety boost gets too hot. (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 22:56:08 12/29/03 Seedyrom said he was cruising in safety boost... - Stealth021 11:13:28 12/30/03 Thought your claim was that you didn't look at other chips? (n/m) - xybertron 00:23:33 12/30/03 Wow, maybe I'll buy a Eprom programmer and blow my car up.. - speedr300z (ATL) 21:34:38 12/29/03 2nd (n/m) - NR98 (soon) 21:36:26 12/29/03 Thats why eprom tuning is not for everyone (n/m) - HakenTT 21:37:18 12/29/03 To many people, their Z is their toy. We're talking about - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 21:53:06 12/29/03 You should have a green little 'n' for that post. (n/m) - SooperZ95 09:10:28 12/30/03 I love your politically incorrect way with words lol (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 21:42:34 12/29/03 "there are lots of stupid idiots out there...." - JuicycJ4(doesntlikealbinodirt) 21:42:55 12/29/03 You either smartass. - Stealth021 21:49:52 12/29/03 English is my 3rd language - HakenTT 21:50:12 12/29/03 It is pretty good in that case! (n/m) - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 21:54:32 12/29/03 2nd (n/m) - Stealth021 21:57:16 12/29/03 3rd (n/m) - sarbit 03:03:40 12/30/03 Sounded pretty good to me for someone doesn't speak - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 21:56:49 12/29/03 Well here's my opinion about "safety"... - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 21:46:54 12/29/03 Many Zers use Boost controllers instead of jets - HakenTT 21:54:52 12/29/03 Mine works just fine with an AVC-R. - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 21:57:32 12/29/03 Re: Mine works just fine with an AVC-R. - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 22:12:25 12/29/03 depends on if you unplug the stock boost solenoids. - Spee 23:53:21 12/29/03 Eh? - JC (Vegas) 22:14:05 12/29/03 Bookmarked! Must have missed that in Tech. Nice! (n/m) - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 22:23:40 12/29/03 I too have my boost solenoids disconnected - Christopher 15:08:01 12/30/03 And apparently I'm off one one aspect thanks to Greg above - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 21:59:41 12/29/03 Rule 1: With a boost controller, your boost will not drop. - AshsZ(In Florida) 22:01:40 12/29/03 All the more reason to have the JWT chip. Read above. - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 22:11:28 12/29/03 The statement is just plain wrong - Russell@Z1 22:34:01 12/29/03 No argument about the fuel - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 22:42:51 12/29/03 You are also tuning with 93 octane, JWT 91 octane. - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 22:43:52 12/29/03 A little insite...... - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 21:49:41 12/29/03 Good info. Did not know that! - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 21:55:44 12/29/03 The way to become a professional tuner is to play and - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 22:04:07 12/29/03 lol - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 22:13:53 12/29/03 Thanks. I did not know that - HakenTT 22:09:44 12/29/03 Two fallacies there: - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 22:35:49 12/29/03 Uhm, I'm gonna disagree with you there Greg.. - AshsZ(In Florida) 22:17:13 12/29/03 I think you are confusing EGTs with cylinder temps - AshsZ(In Florida) 22:29:00 12/29/03 Re: Uhm, I'm gonna disagree with you there Greg.. - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 22:31:35 12/29/03 Dont start this "gonna take the high road and sound - AshsZ(In Florida) 22:42:09 12/29/03 For those who missed that Z1 > JWT (n/m) - Russell@Z1 22:46:45 12/29/03 says who? - TARGETZ 22:53:12 12/29/03 You MUST be BLIND. Search you NOOB!! They're everywhere! (n/m) - AshsZ(In Florida) 22:59:21 12/29/03 LOL, I've seen a few dyno comparisens already. (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 23:00:42 12/29/03 Unrelated: Where are you at with your car at the moment? - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 23:04:17 12/29/03 Just got my pistons from Wiseco last week after two - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 23:16:43 12/29/03 As long as you have it back by the summer months! :) (n/m) - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 23:18:32 12/29/03 LOL, you know who designed those pistons? (n/m) - AshsZ(In Florida) 23:20:38 12/29/03 Yea, I know. Got you to Thank for the catch :) (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 23:22:43 12/29/03 I had my machine shop check the taper last week, they - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 23:24:11 12/29/03 .008" is the old cut. MAKE SURE your machinist goes ONLY - AshsZ(In Florida) 23:31:14 12/29/03 Yup , uncoated on the side. Coated on the top. (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 23:33:08 12/29/03 Ash, what about .0035? Are you runnin .003 in the - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 23:41:34 12/29/03 FWIW, I'll be running .0028 - aliaZ 00:21:17 12/30/03 Use 0.003" clearance. You dont need any more. - AshsZ(In Florida) 01:27:51 12/30/03 Brian Nutter = effing moron (n/m) - aliaZ 00:16:51 12/30/03 excuse me no they are not re read my post. (n/m) - TARGETZ 23:04:00 12/29/03 There are several non-ash-tuned dynos on this site. - AshsZ(In Florida) 23:19:30 12/29/03 Sometimes I don't know why I defend you man :( - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 22:54:23 12/29/03 And for god's sake, stop responding to me. Answer the Qs - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 23:02:53 12/29/03 2nd. Russel and Ash, please read. Not a flame. - Stealth021 10:04:01 12/30/03 That means nothing coming from you - aliaZ 23:21:11 12/29/03 Yea, you need someone like a Good2Zya (Fred) do - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 23:32:05 12/29/03 LOL!!!! - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 22:51:24 12/29/03 Boost level is relative. You can't say the same theory - AshsZ(In Florida) 23:01:21 12/29/03 Speaking of the high road... - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 23:05:20 12/29/03 I never take the high road, its boring, uneducational, - AshsZ(In Florida) 23:10:03 12/29/03 Re: Boost level is relative. You can't say the same theory - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 23:20:36 12/29/03 Then we will agree to disagree. - AshsZ(In Florida) 23:28:54 12/29/03 That remark had NO class whatsoever. - jpark74 23:39:28 12/29/03 2nd (n/m) - FairladyZ113 16:55:28 12/30/03 Jesus man. (n/m) - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 23:39:52 12/29/03 God, actually.. - AshsZ(In Florida) 03:31:17 12/30/03 You have a way with words.... - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 23:41:48 12/29/03 Wow. That was really out of F&!#ing line Ash. I respect - M[ohio] 23:41:49 12/29/03 Wow dude...wow... - xtensive 23:47:04 12/29/03 So what would you have to say about DVDBurn's post then? - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 00:00:33 12/30/03 LOL, if you're claiming that those web pages say SHIT - AshsZ(In Florida) 02:34:37 12/30/03 Right...attack me now since you've failed everywhere else. - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 10:49:21 12/30/03 Talk about the low road. You should be ashamed. (n/m) - shirow 00:11:13 12/30/03 Call me wrong for my actions, perhaps.. - AshsZ(In Florida) 00:34:47 12/30/03 Ash don't feel bad about your comments - HakenTT 00:39:24 12/30/03 Well, I kindof do.. I'm not a totally cold-hearted bastard - AshsZ(In Florida) 00:45:58 12/30/03 yes, you are ....... ;P (n/m) - Luke@tirerack 12:03:45 12/30/03 Here is the what happens as posted by young grasshopper... - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 00:50:41 12/30/03 So what we're all supposed to take from that is if - AshsZ(In Florida) 01:00:35 12/30/03 I was never saying anything about your ECU.... - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 01:10:58 12/30/03 Actually Ginn from GMS said he saw one blown piston - HakenTT 01:15:50 12/30/03 Would be nice to know who that car belongs to and - AshsZ(In Florida) 01:22:56 12/30/03 I do not comment on customer's cars in a public forum - Chip(GMS Racing) 11:06:56 12/30/03 I should have phrased it more correctly, - Chip(GMS Racing) 14:09:58 12/30/03 You my friend are ALWAYS right, you are the end all when - Seb 00:53:03 12/30/03 Speaking of MINES and JUN, both of them drop their ignition - AshsZ(In Florida) 01:03:21 12/30/03 Like I said I can't even argue w/ you cause you are too - Seb 01:08:35 12/30/03 LOL, so I bet you think I'm BSing about that, eh? - AshsZ(In Florida) 01:17:10 12/30/03 I totally see your point in the issue - Seb 01:26:16 12/30/03 Replying to this just makes me the monster you are saying I - AshsZ(In Florida) 01:42:02 12/30/03 it's not your determination, Ash, it's your execution. - Spee 01:51:03 12/30/03 What's the point of that? - AshsZ(In Florida) 02:35:55 12/30/03 gaining the respect of those you are talking to. - Spee 02:50:41 12/30/03 So let me get this straight, I'm supposed to let sand get - AshsZ(In Florida) 03:24:34 12/30/03 Just act in a manner consistent with the thread. - SooperZ95 10:34:43 12/30/03 LOL, so in other words, I should have just left it at - AshsZ(In Florida) 12:12:34 12/30/03 no dammit, NO! - Spee 14:26:53 12/30/03 Call me tomorrow so I don't forget to put in the good word (n/m) - Seb 01:09:24 12/30/03 Dude, you keeping glancing over Greg's MAIN point... - Spee 01:00:38 12/30/03 And if you have a boost controller? What then? Just - AshsZ(In Florida) 01:10:44 12/30/03 obviously if you have a boost controller, you're ECU cannot - Spee 01:31:37 12/30/03 That is exactly why JWT does not pull timing in safety... - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 01:32:41 12/30/03 Greg,from reading that article it is describing the - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 01:41:13 12/30/03 LOL, no, a cutting torch maintains the 2O2-C2H2 burn during - AshsZ(In Florida) 02:06:51 12/30/03 I'm sorry, that's ludicrous. - AshsZ(In Florida) 01:45:04 12/30/03 so answer my question about the hypothetical test... - Spee 01:52:20 12/30/03 I dont see why those presenting the argument to me are - AshsZ(In Florida) 02:47:01 12/30/03 I understand all of that perfectly clear. And it makes sens - Spee 14:33:52 12/30/03 I think he talking about excessive retard can be - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 01:52:51 12/30/03 Hey man... i know you admire me and all.... - Smurf Z 09:07:44 12/30/03 Really?? - Spongerider :) 12:10:37 12/30/03 *sigh* - Spee 00:35:58 12/30/03 You said it! :( (n/m) - Spongerider :) 12:01:32 12/30/03 Question (raise hand), Who the F is Central 20? (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 00:41:27 12/30/03 *rolleyes* The company that taught JWT how to tune ECUs. - AshsZ(In Florida) 00:48:16 12/30/03 Isn't Clark the brains behind the JWT tuning and not Jim (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 00:56:41 12/30/03 yes (n/m) - aliaZ 06:43:37 12/30/03 Man If I was Russell... - TARGETZ 01:45:40 12/30/03 Good thing you're not Russell then, eh? LOL - AshsZ(In Florida) 03:16:26 12/30/03 wow.....you're an asshole (n/m) - NR98 (soon) 07:51:11 12/30/03 I have a large order of ZEM units on their way, supposed - AshsZ(In Florida) 22:45:26 12/29/03 Thank You (n/m) - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 22:53:02 12/29/03 Always someone elses fault... (n/m) - xybertron 00:08:35 12/30/03 You single handeldy have the WORST problems with - Spee 01:04:46 12/30/03 Go into business, you'll figure it out.. (n/m) - AshsZ(In Florida) 01:24:58 12/30/03 When people complain post a tracking number - Easy fix. (n/m) - xybertron 01:31:57 12/30/03 I work in the recieving department for Home Depot - Spee 01:41:26 12/30/03 Performance Shop job no more? - DutchZX 02:51:50 12/30/03 Actually, that would be Steve Long of Ztoyz.net. (n/m) - nixit 15:48:45 12/30/03 Yahoo says you need more webspace. - Stealth021 22:14:01 12/29/03 JWT ecu is fine for stock block engine. But when you - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 22:36:27 12/29/03 Not one OUNCE of this thread deals with that kind of - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 22:46:56 12/29/03 Oh Yea, with my modded engine, my JWT ran lean across - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 22:42:29 12/29/03 Here ya go>>> - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 22:44:07 12/29/03 You can easily expand the maps and fix this problem. - xybertron 00:45:42 12/30/03 Good Show Gentlemen! I love this forum. All the big names - Gordo 93TT NYC 23:08:38 12/29/03 Long time man! The bottom of your car still as clean as - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 23:18:03 12/29/03 Its still as clean as>> - Gordo 93TT NYC 00:15:43 12/30/03 Nice :) (n/m) - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 01:26:36 12/30/03 Doesn't Gordo mean Fat in Spanish? (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 23:20:17 12/29/03 And Taco Bell's Gordita = little fat girl - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 23:44:22 12/29/03 LOL! That is good one. (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 23:51:04 12/29/03 Hey stop that...That's like flaming an old guy! (n/m) - Gordo 93TT NYC 00:06:02 12/30/03 BS! Someone do their homework! JWT did not scrap the knock - DVDBURN (MD) 23:47:36 12/29/03 GREAT post! Glad you put up some links for proof - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 23:58:14 12/29/03 No problem. I have about a hundred more links regarding - DVDBURN (MD) 00:01:20 12/30/03 If you could post a handful or so I'd like to read up - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 00:05:57 12/30/03 dude your links proove that you are idiot - HakenTT 00:04:38 12/30/03 Bahahaha, you need to keep reading further into that page - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 00:07:10 12/30/03 You are full of it - HakenTT 00:13:05 12/30/03 Heh, read the other page my friend. - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 00:21:54 12/30/03 Did you say english was your, uh, fifth language? :)P (n/m) - DVDBURN (MD) 00:16:31 12/30/03 nice info. more links please (n/m) - aliaZ 00:35:28 12/30/03 WTF!? Neither of those two pages have SQUAT to do with - AshsZ(In Florida) 02:19:57 12/30/03 Please read a bit closer - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 10:54:32 12/30/03 Praise for Devin Chip here on stock engine, hopefully Devin - StormShadow 00:15:17 12/30/03 JWT has used at least 7 timing / fuel maps. - xybertron 00:22:28 12/30/03 I really didn't want to get into this, - Seb 00:23:49 12/30/03 nice info (n/m) - aliaZ 00:34:37 12/30/03 Thats why I use Water Injection for safety - HakenTT 00:47:02 12/30/03 ?????? (n/m) - Seb 00:50:14 12/30/03 If you where in cave for a year or so read this: - HakenTT 00:56:42 12/30/03 UUHH ok, we're not talking about water inj. at the moment (n/m) - Seb 00:58:15 12/30/03 Eproms don't run outta water :-) (n/m) - xybertron 00:53:20 12/30/03 I've just send you E-Mail on yahoo acount (n/m) - HakenTT 00:55:08 12/30/03 good for you (n/m) - M[ohio] 00:59:36 12/30/03 Is this the same principle of cutting steel with - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 01:07:38 12/30/03 Interesting info. (n/m) - Dan (Vancouver) 01:19:13 12/30/03 More good info! - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 01:25:49 12/30/03 I'm going to try and be polite here: Re-reading this - AshsZ(In Florida) 02:01:04 12/30/03 So you're saying you pulled lots of timing - Seb 02:06:27 12/30/03 No, other way around. It was detonating which caused - AshsZ(In Florida) 02:11:34 12/30/03 He wrote: "Forced Induction" Performance Tuning - Seb 02:23:30 12/30/03 They actually showed no signs of detonation. (n/m) - AshsZ(In Florida) 02:31:48 12/30/03 LOL @ Z-idiot Todd Reeves (n/m) - Stealth021 10:42:37 12/30/03 Please........ - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 02:19:00 12/30/03 I'm tired of this parade of who's been around longer. - AshsZ(In Florida) 02:30:51 12/30/03 You are very smart, But you do not know everthing..... - Greg D. (Specialty-Z) 02:46:21 12/30/03 I never said that I did, but I know what I know, - AshsZ(In Florida) 03:07:27 12/30/03 Russel from Z1, a notice to you - Jack B. 06:00:17 12/30/03 I would expect that if our customers were all little - Russell@Z1 09:05:55 12/30/03 I would ask Ash to drop reference to Z1 from his name/sig... - ZisLuv 10:07:37 12/30/03 Your probably right - Russell@Z1 11:10:14 12/30/03 Are you sure? - Smurf Z 12:18:24 12/30/03 agreed (n/m) - aliaZ 12:00:33 12/30/03 Re: I would expect that if our customers were all little - Spongerider :) 11:18:25 12/30/03 Fourzero is an idiot, nuff said about that... (n/m) - Stealth021 12:33:48 12/30/03 His most worthless post here is still more productive - KILLR300ZX 16:55:57 12/30/03 People get emotional, that's being human. Is it worth losing - shirow 12:17:29 12/30/03 Coming from you, I'd take that as a compliment. (n/m) - Marshall 10:17:04 12/30/03 *grin* (n/m) - RSR 11:36:49 12/30/03 Holy moly, again.... - RSR 08:42:23 12/30/03 WOW, a day to read the whole thread. (n/m) - Halo Z 09:57:00 12/30/03 Saw this shit blowing up last night. Grin. - Stealth021 10:08:57 12/30/03 A day and night for me. 14 rollup in my laptop to post this. (n/m) - Arturo C. 22:24:14 12/30/03 FYI, he has my 91 octane chip. - Chip(GMS Racing) 10:35:40 12/30/03 Chip, I would like your opinion... - Stealth021 11:16:31 12/30/03 My ECU splits the difference, - Chip(GMS Racing) 12:32:07 12/30/03 Interesting, thank you for your honest answer. - Stealth021 12:37:34 12/30/03 True. Your chip is very good for boost and safety - HakenTT 11:49:45 12/30/03 holy crap this post took up a whole page :D (n/m) - Tissan 11:46:16 12/30/03
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